over the last probably 20 years there has been a 15% increase the number of swap rates in the u.s. john: originally was supposed to be a rare event for highly armed criminals. >> that's right. it was intended to be a way to use violence to diffuse and already violence situation. hostage-taking, bank robberies, riots, that kind of thing. what they use now, there instigating violence, breaking into the homes of people suspected of non-violent crimes, marijuana, cocaine. we're seeing now used for things like reading poker games. so you are not diffusing violence situations and more, you're creating an. john: and this often is ten or 20 guys dressed in black, heavily-armed. >> they look like military. they look like, you know, a unit that would invade a village in iraq looking for insurgents. john: they say we need to do this to make sure the guy does not resist. and if we come in strong that reduces the chance that people will be killed. >> that is a fine argument if you have somebody who presents an immediate threat to other people. the problem is when you use what teams in these tac